The most effective leaders practice certain principles that others don’t.  Practice these principles and experience the difference they make

In this episode you’ll learn: 

  • Why self-awareness and self- honesty are so critical 
  • What type of people to surround yourself with 
  • How the willingness to be vulnerable helps you 
  • How to put your core values into action 


Read more about how self-awareness drives your effectiveness.


The Transcript

Brad Wolff:   00:02                    

Welcome to the, it is about you podcast today. I’m honored to have as my guest Nick Wenner. He is the VP of operations for pallet service corporation. Welcome to the show, Nick.

Nick Wenner:   00:18                    

Thanks, Brad. I appreciate you having me.

Brad Wolff:   00:19                    

Absolutely. So would you please share a little bit about yourself and about pallet service corporation?

Nick Wenner:   00:26                    

Yeah, so I’m honored to be a second-generation in the, in the wooden pallet and a lumber industry here. I largely love what I do because I enjoy the people that I get to do it with. This is true in my personal and professional life. I’ve been married to my wife, Kailey for 10 years. We have two kids and a wildly supportive, extended family. And I also get to work yeah. With my dad and my brother every day. So that’s just a, a true honor and a really, really fun thing to be able to do. It’s admittedly not always easy, but my dad has been always really big about family and relationships first. So that’s kind of always been what we, what we strive to do. And it’s worked out for us, this far. So we’re excited to just keep it rolling.

Brad Wolff:  01:15                    

Terrific. So tell me about your journey that’s brought you to where you are today.

Nick Wenner:  01:22                    

Yeah, so it’s been obviously I’m, I’m [inaudible] what I would consider a relatively young guy still. So I’m, I’m the first to admit. I probably have more to learn than I actually know at this point. Cause I haven’t been doing this as long as many have. But I guess two of the big things that pop out to me when I think about I know what drives me and what keeps me going on a day to day basis is there are a million things that we can choose to, especially as leaders and as business owners too, to worry about on a daily basis. And one of the things that I’ve learned through my own experience and also through mainly my dad’s kind of demonstrating for me is that all we can do as effective leaders is to control the controllable. And we leave the rest of God.

Nick Wenner:  02:11                    

I mean, we, there’s only so much that we can get done in a day and there’s always the next thing that we can be worrying about or thinking about. But, but at the end of the day, we just gotta be comfortable with the fact that as human beings, we’re limited at our capabilities and we just got to understand what those are and work with them. And then thing number two would be just surrounding yourself with people. I love you, that care about you and that holds you accountable. If you can, if you can figure that piece out, I think then basically you’re set up. I mean, I, I believe we’re all kinds of products that people we surround ourselves with. So if we can, you do a good job of surrounding ourselves with people that are strong, where we’re weak or like-minded or, and, or challenge us in certain areas. It just makes us better people.

Brad Wolff:  02:57                    

So in terms of the journey, what, what caused you to choose to join your family business? What, what, what, what led to that process?

Nick Wenner:  03:08                    

Yeah. So that’s also kind of a cool thing that that again, I’m super appreciative to both my parents for, I think I can speak for my brother and I both in that, Hey, I was, they always made the business a choice for us. It was never one of those things where it was expected or even implied that we’re going to be coming into the business. It was always a pure choice. In fact, I think my dad’s plan was to not have us involved just because he didn’t want to put that pressure on us. But when we both kind of naturally showed interest in the business, then he kind of shifted his game plan a little bit and we moved into a little bit more of a growth mode and we’ve been working together ever since. He bought the business when I was in first grade or actually kindergarten.

Nick Wenner:    03:53                    

So I’ve just been kind of exposed to this industry and just kind of his entrepreneurial spirit for as long as I can remember. I remember when he bought it, my brother and I would come in on weekends and with help throw wood into the nailing machine and just kind of, I’m just doing little things like that to keep us involved. And it was also at that point, it’s a good family thing. I, me and my brother now we’re spending time with our dad and it was just an awesome, awesome way to grow up and it just, and even better opportunity that we got to be a part of kind of the future growth as, as we got involved.

Brad Wolff: 04:26                    

Absolutely. So tell me what excites you the most about your organization?

Nick Wenner:  04:34                    

I would say what excites me the most is again, people, people the people I get to be around every day are just awesome. And, we have a lot of fun together. Ellen’s each other. Like I said before, I’d always, it’s easy, but that, that keeps coming back to me as, as I continue to work and gain experiences, that it’s less about my capabilities as an individual and more about our, our capabilities as a group. And one of the things that I remember hearing from a business leader that I interviewed in college was careful about the teammates you surround yourself with. So choose those people wisely. And like I said before, I choose people that are likeminded in many areas, but also you got to choose people that are different from you to give you different perspectives.

Nick Wenner: 05:28                    

And, and when it comes to business choosing people that are, that are strong, where, where I think I’m weak and that’s part of a [inaudible] and have a, an introspective approach that I think is important for leaders too is step one to that is we have to realize and understand where we are weak. Because I think, I think oftentimes as leaders we’re expected to have all the answers all the time. And, and we’re just used to people coming to us with, with problems and stuff. But it’s way more fun and it’s way more sustainable when you have a group of people around you that can help problem solve and do the things that they’re good at. Because I’m, I’m admittedly weakened areas and that’s where I try and surround myself with people that are strong. And

Brad Wolff:   06:15                    

So the people are the key thing that really excites you the most about your business. And tell me a little bit more about how you challenge each other because that’s an area that can go either way in Oregon.

Nick Wenner: 06:32                    

Yeah. And I think, I think one of the ways that that is important or one of the things that I think is important to keep in mind is even before like the whole professional relationship and the challenging starts because we have to have this, this mutual level of care for each other and respect for each other. I, I heard a number of years back this quote from Teddy Roosevelt where he said, nobody cares how much, you know, until they know how much. So that’s been one thing that I really, really, I tried to push hard on his, making sure that everybody’s coming from the perspective that we’re all human. All, we all are here because we care about each other. And that tends to be the glue that holds us together because in business you get into some hairy and challenging situations where you can get egos involved.

Nick Wenner: 07:24                    

Yeah. Personal aspirations involved and you can get a lot of different things in six there. But I really believe that if we all enter a room or a meeting or a challenge together with the understanding that we’re here because we tear about each other and we care about the business, then we can all feel good about whatever solution we come to together. And that’s, that’s been the really cool part about as, as we’re building these relationships, it’s becoming easier and easier to challenge each other because we have that level of respect already established. And I’ve found that when you try and push people that be with you are M or trust you or have some issues with you that find to lead those people is challenging. And also trying to work with those people with challenging. That’s there is, there’s that thing sitting in the background that [inaudible] that everybody’s guarding

Brad Wolff:  08:17                    

The truth that you truly care allows people to be open when you’re, when they, when you challenge each other,

Nick Wenner:  08:24                    

Right, and you’ve got to, you’ve got to show them, I think by leading, by making yourself vulnerable first, like I’m a big believer in if I’m, if I’m entering a tough situation and I, and I’ve got some part of that Tufts situation, I’m going to put my piece of it out on the table first and own that first so that you can start by creating this, this kind of space. Everybody knows that it’s okay to expose your weaknesses or whenever that is because I’m going to do it first and hopefully people will build off of that. That is,

Brad Wolff:  08:56                    

That is a great point in a, and I think a key point and leadership is that the example you set as a leader is he example that other people will follow and certainly people will not feel safe to share their vulnerabilities, their weaknesses. If you’re not gonna, if you’re perfect, they have to be perfect to, to meet up with your ex.

Nick Wenner:  09:19                    

It all comes back to the old saying, we’ve all heard a million times. Actions speak louder than words. We can all say one thing, but people really remember our actions stick longer in people’s minds that our words. Absolutely. And I think that’s where it just super important that we’re constantly leading by our actions. And that’s where like we just went through an exercise about almost two years ago now where we tried for the first time to establish core values for our company. And that was a really challenging process for our team of leaders because you want, you want core values to be something that when you present them did the company and when you’re bringing new people into the company, they should already kind of feel these things. You’re just putting a name on them. They shouldn’t be things that were [inaudible] things that we’re trying to do that we’re not right now that we’re trying to become.

Nick Wenner: 10:11                    

There are things that they are putting a name on the things we already are and calling those out and kind of [inaudible] we kind of, I N referred to him as it’s our not so secret sauce is like ours are balanced, which means we care about people being balanced in faith, family and work. [inaudible] Innovation. We need to be coming up with new new ways to do things. We always are respectful, we treat others how we want to be treated. Oh, we’re committed. Ah, and we’re humble. So those are kind of the five and they happen to spell Birch, which fits well within the wind industry, which honestly we didn’t plan. But yeah, a little bit, plenty there. But it works out really well and, and we try and I ain’t just reverberate those on a regular basis throughout the company and really try and use those as the glue that kind of helps, helps hold us together as an organization.

Brad Wolff: 11:02                    

Great. So with the key point about showing you care, what do you find are things that you do that show people that you care rather than telling them that you care? Sure.

Nick Wenner:  11:16                    

So one of the big things for me is, is showing you, showing people kind of in, in little but constant ways that you’re noticing what they’re doing and you actually see them as a person, whether that’s through [inaudible], it’s an individual comment that you make to the person or through, Hey, here’s a hundred dollars gift card. I know you’ve been working really hard and working some late nights. I want you and your wife to go out of dinner together. So just doing, making little efforts like that to just show people that you’re noticing what they’re doing and that you really care about the contributions. Definitely.

Brad Wolff:  11:52                    

Do you think leaders can fake

Nick Wenner:   11:54                    

That they care and pull that off? You can fake it for a period of time, but I mean, eventually I think the true colors show and the, and the cracks, the cracks come through. And that’s, that’s the challenge too between at what point is it faking? At what point is it just honest, honest failure. I mean, with all of us being humans, I admit, do you hear that we fail on delivering on our core values perfectly every day as a company. But what matters is that we’re committed to it. We own our mistakes when we like when we knowingly are in hindsight violate one of our core values. We need to own that and we need to put a name on it and make that public. And it’s not something we’re going to be ashamed about. But I feel like when you, when you’re public about owning your mistakes, that’s how people know that you’re, you’re not just faking it. When you start trying to cover up your mistakes and make those not visible, that then the cracks start to show. And then our, our actions don’t really mean as much.

Brad Wolff:   13:01                    

I want to, I want to really highlight that Nick, that hypocrisy is not so much that I said one thing and did another. It’s ice. It’s, I said one thing I did another and I denied that I was being a hypocrite when I come forth and I say, you know what, I said I was gonna listen, but I really got all bent out of shape and started talking to you and sharing my feelings. Yup. I wanna I want to acknowledge that, that I didn’t do what I said. I’m not a hypocrite when I acknowledge it and make a man and defend what I did.

Nick Wenner:  13:36                    

Yup. And I think too, it’s important. Like I try and I try and regularly create a space to ask people where am I? Where am I failing? Like I need you to be honest because we all have our own self-perceptions and I think again, going back to the respect and the love and the care that you should have for your coworkers and teammates is we need to love and care about each other enough to be able to call each other out when we need to. The idea that we’re going to make each other better because of it. If we’re all going to keep just pushing that stuff under the rug and, and not be okay with sand when somebody gets out of line or see we’re calling each other out on things, then we’re going to continue to live in this bubble and live in our own heads and really not not be able to get a whole lot better. I think

Brad Wolff:  14:25                    

It’s, you’re right, it’s starting with honesty and authenticity and making it okay because we are human. We aren’t going to be perfect no matter how hard we strive, we can just strive to get better. But I think that allows for imperfection, a being that you’re dealing with the reality and it makes it easier for people to come forth and admit to whatever they’re struggling with.

Nick Wenner:  14:49                    

Yep, absolutely. So I think all that comes back to as leaders, we need, we need to show our weaknesses first and recognize their weaknesses so that people can see that it’s okay to name their own.

Brad Wolff: 15:02                    

So what do you say to leaders that are afraid that, well, if I show my weaknesses and my imperfections, my people will lose respect for me. What do you say to people that make that comment?

Nick Wenner:  15:12                    

Well, when it, when it comes to our organization and if I were to have that question asked of me of one of my fellow leaders in our organization I would say show me a time in history when that’s been the case where you’ve been honest with me or you’ve been honest with, with this person and it’s backfired night.

Brad Wolff:  15:36                    

You know what, this is great cause we were talking about imperfection and I normally turn my phone off and I’m going to come clean. I forgot to turn my phone off. That’s perfect. That’s what makes for a perfect podcast, right? Yeah. Is real. It’s not scripted. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Nick Wenner:   15:57                    

All comes back to experience and example in just when, when people try and bring that doubt, then you just gotta counter it with again, we’re, we’re people who are here because we care about each other, we care about the organization. And this is just what’s best for everybody if we just name it or through it.

Brad Wolff: 16:17                    

And I want to highlight also on that that the research is clear. Harvard business journal did an article business with Harvard business review ran an article two years ago where the research is clear. Humans connect on vulnerability and weaknesses rather than on greatness. So when I share, I’m really struggling with this, I’m not doing this well. We’re a lot more connected and trusting than when I get up and tell you about how fantastic I am in perfect. Diane. I think that’s very, I think that’s part of it is we do not connect on a, on greatness.

Nick Wenner: 16:53                    

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things that kind of inspired us or kind of shifted our mentality in this way is one of our, one of our fellow pallet company owners in the industry games, ruder invited us down for a conference. And one of the things he said at that conference where he was talking about loving his employees and loving his people and just caring about people. And having that be the basis that you build your success off of him. It’s just this idea that we all come to, we all come to work every day with baggage. And then in years past, like in my dad’s kind of generation, the saying was, I was, we’re home stays at home and when you come to work, you leave your personal stuff at home. And especially with, I believe in how connected we are just as a society digitally with all the text messages and social media.

Nick Wenner:  17:45                    

You can’t, if, if you have stuff going on at home, you can’t shut it off. Cause there’s always messages coming in. There are always things happening. And that’s where I found that we like when something’s going on with a manager or somebody where they’re acting out of character, just an employee, there’s usually something that can explain it outside of the norm where something’s going on at home, they have a kid with issues and just understanding where people are coming from and not just jumping to conclusions and making assumptions. I think as has helped us avoid a couple of ’em of fires that we probably would have regretted because we would have let a bad, a good person go because we didn’t understand about some stamps that were coming.

Brad Wolff:   18:33                    

And I want to highlight that. And that’s one of the ways that people show they care. Your John Maxwell, you may be familiar with him. He’s one of the most well-known leadership experts. He’s written a lot of books. He’s, I heard him speak recently and he said the single most important factor to being a great leader is to care about your people. Everything else is secondary. What you’re saying isn’t just some interesting new philosophy. It’s, it’s, it’s the truth.

Nick Wenner: 19:07                    

Yeah. And the challenge that I’ve found with that is, is that that opens us up as a company and as leaders to own our ability in terms of, there are always people who are going to try and capitalize on our vulnerability and our, and are forgiveness basically where they kind of, there’s going to be people that are just going to try and take advantage of that. And that’s where just, I mean they have clear lines about how you’re going to be forgiving and how you’re going to be gracious to people. It needs to be that way, but it’s gotta be that way with limits I think.

Brad Wolff:  19:41                    

Right. Are you really caring about someone if you allow them to do things that are harmful to themselves in the company? Yeah. That’s caring by allowing people to do whatever they want, even if it’s violating,

Nick Wenner:  19:54                    

Cause that is certain point too. That person is making an example for their peers that if I, if I am continuing to be allowed to act a certain way or do a certain thing, then that’s showing everybody that that’s okay. Right. and it’s, it’s one thing which is an intentional decision.

Brad Wolff:  20:14                    

So Nick, what is your definition of personal development?

Nick Wenner:  20:21                    

Oh boy, that’s a good one.

Nick Wenner:  20:27                    

My definition of personal development is just I say, Hey, Clemson attitude ire of growth. I’m just looking for opportunities to make myself better. I really, I really don’t have like a, a defined kind of formula or I’m just like I said, I’m looking to surround myself with people that are better than me or strong and areas that I’m weak. And that’s just one of the ways that I think I can grow like an I just recently a year or two ago joined like kind of a peer group where once a month we get together with other business owners and talk about what’s going on in our business. And just hearing, hearing other people’s experience and leaning off of other people’s experience, it’s one of those things that, that is just priceless for me. Not to mention the relationships that you build.

Nick Wenner:  21:20                    

I mean, as you can see, I, I keep coming back to people in a relationship and just because I truly believe that that’s what makes it all work. And that’s at the end of the day with, it’s what makes it all worth it. If we’re all just slaves to the dollar every day and we’re not, we’re, we’re lonely at the top or whatever and we’ve got all the money. But no friends to enjoy it with or no family because we’ve worked our tails off and don’t have any balance in our life. Then what was the point of it all?

Brad Wolff:  21:46                    

So you’re clear on your values and you and you and you practice it and that’s key. Yeah. So what do you see as the relationship between leadership development in personal development? Yeah.

Nick Wenner: 22:00                   

Yes, I had a little bit more

Brad Wolff: 22:05                    

Come again,

Nick Wenner: 22:06                    

I said, clarify, clarify that a little bit.

Brad Wolff: 22:09                    

Okay. We’ve talked about leadership development. We talked about personal development. What do you see as the relationship between the two?

Nick Wenner:   22:17                    

Well, I think, I think the two are again, tightly, tightly wound and tightly connected with each other. But when it comes to, when it comes to the leadership development it just, again, for me it’s, it’s all about looking for opportunities to, to grow myself in it. And it all starts with me recognizing where I’m weak and also in helping and helping my teammates grow. It comes back to that honesty about helping them identify their weak areas themselves. And then I can point out some of the areas that I see need growth. And then together we put together a plan for how we’re going to fill that void. Whether it’s through the training or whether it’s through a peer group or some additional education that needs to take place. It, it, I think it’s, it’s not a one size fits all approach. It kind of needs to be tailored to what the specific areas are.

Brad Wolff:  23:09                 

Okay. So as you, as a person grows personally, they grow as a leader and as I grow as a leader, they grow personally. They’re all woven together. Okay. And in addition to the things you mentioned with peer groups developing relationships where people are honest and let you know where they see you’re struggling and things like that, are there any other regular practices that you have that have been very helpful for your growth and development as a leader?

Nick Wenner:  23:40                    

One of the things that, that I’ve found to be very helpful, but for some reason, I have this internal struggle of allowing myself to do it as just have ’em what they call in the traction world is clarity breaks. Where you’re basically in the scope of me doing my job. I’m going to unplug myself from my day to day tasks and just take some time to reflect on kind of big or big-picture thinking.

Nick Wenner:  24:08                    

And really try and just look for it because we can get lost in the minutia of our day to day activities. We can, we can drown ourselves into dues all day long. But really I think some of the best ideas and some of them, the new directions that we have come, whether it’s, I mean that’s where vacation and balance and all that stuff comes in is when you’re, when you’re on vacation sitting on the beach. But we’re also kind of always thinking about little things as it regards to work. And just allowing ourselves that time to kind of slow down and pull ourselves out of our daily activities kind of opens our minds up to just bigger picture thinking and new ideas.

Brad Wolff:   24:48                    

That is, that is a great point. And I want, I want to highlight that as well, is to have the courage to break away from the normal routine that wants to pull us in and take that time yeah. To just allow some time to see things differently.

Nick Wenner:  25:09                    

Yup. And a genuine [inaudible] quote from it was very hard Texan implementer that we use it. He said, I don’t know, I don’t remember who said it, but he said banking is one of the hardest things that we as leaders have to do, which is why so few people choose to do it. And it’s one of those things. It is, it’s one of those things that feels counterproductive until you get that nugget out of it. That is just a game-changer that you would’ve never had if you went to just taking the time.

Brad Wolff:   25:39                     ]

So that time away opens up a different way of, of perceiving and thinking they wouldn’t be available for, we’re just locked into the tasks that we’re [inaudible]

Nick Wenner:  25:48                    

At the moment. Yup. Which again, it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like that on the onset, especially when you’re trying to get into a rhythm of doing that because of right. For me one of the things I still struggle with when I try and enter into a time like that is unplugging my mind from the list of things that are waiting for me when I get back and just be okay with letting go of those things for a little while, even if it’s for an hour or two once a week. But just letting go of that stuff once in a while and giving yourself time to actually do some critical thinking.

Brad Wolff:  26:21                    

And also with that, the way you described it and isn’t necessarily active thinking, a lot of times there’s one that’s not actively thinking. Right. So it’s, it’s sometimes that’s the key is that we’re not thinking, yeah. Which, which changes things. What’s the greatest success story that you’ve been part of in your business?

Nick Wenner:  26:43                    


Nick Wenner:  26:47                    

I would say, I mean, just, just the overall company, just like as, as I look back on, he, let’s see, 11, 11 or 12 years that I’ve been here at the company full-time kind of out of college. I came here, work right out of college. When I got out of college, we were two locations and I think probably about 60 employees and now whatever it is, 10 or 12 years later, we are three locations with about 150 employees. And just like, just being able to be a part of that growth story has been such a cool experience for me. And also seeing my dad’s so graciously like he’s been so gracious in the way that he has allowed my brother and me to go out and try new things and allowing us to just make mistakes. And I think that he’s already tried and most of the time they don’t work out and he knows they won’t work out. And some of the times they do. But he’s just been a phenomenal example of what it looks like. The lead people. Well and just sometimes you just got to let people make mistakes because we learn it’s through those experiences. But he’s good about letting us make safe mistakes, obviously not, not make mistakes that are going to cost Oh SA or cause big problems or anything, but letting us make mistakes were, where the consequences relatively safe.

Brad Wolff:  28:16                    

That’s a great point. They’re not, they’re not unlimited experiments. Yeah. They’re controlled experiments. Yup. And go ahead. Do you have a particular failure or obstacle that you’ve overcome that’s been pivotal to your success or the success of the organization?

Nick Wenner:  28:36                    

Well, I think when I, when I kind of give a little bit of thought to that, one of the things that come to mind is being a second generation in a business like this or in any business, there’s a lot of stigmas that come with being a second-generation, being the son of the owner and, and kind of the whole silver spoon mentality of people just kind of putting these labels on you as, as as a family member of the owner. And I think one of the things that, that I’ve learned from my dad, and again, one of the things that I’ve really tried to work hard on is, is showing again, showing these people through my, through my examples and through the experiences that they have with me that that’s not how it is.

Nick Wenner: 29:22                    

I’m really living by the idea that I’m not going to ask you as an employee to do anything I won’t do myself. And that includes getting on a nailing machine and helping nail pallets for a little while or pushing a broom or you know, helping plow snow when we get one of our massive snowstorms here in Minnesota. Just like that. Whatever it takes and you gotta be careful about when you let yourself do that. Because again, I like doing a lot of that kind of physical type stuff and that can distract me from being a leader. I think there definitely is a time and a place for a leader getting, getting out in the field with, with their peers and with their coworkers and just doing the hard work alongside the people that are doing it every day just so you can show them. Oh, Hey, I, I, I have some understanding of, how hard you’re working for us every day and we really appreciate it.

Brad Wolff:   30:12                    

I think the term is leading out front and leading by actually getting in the trenches and working and doing it with them as opposed to just telling them,

Nick Wenner:   30:21                    


Brad Wolff: 30:21                    

That’s, that’s a big deal.

Nick Wenner:  30:23                    

I’d say that’s probably one of my personal, one of the things that I feel most proud about is I really don’t feel like people in this company have this idea about me that I’ve just been handed, handed this role that I’m in right now.

Brad Wolff: 30:37                    

Well, if they did a level of any time with you, that would, if some people make that assumption, just spending time working with you would change it because people will make assumptions. That’s just part of, we all do. Yep. But are we open to challenging our assumptions and realizing that we were wrong?

Nick Wenner:  30:53                    

Nailed it.

Brad Wolff:   30:55                    

Okay. Now is there anything you’d like to add that we haven’t discussed? I mean, I think we’ve solved pretty much most of the world’s problems today in a half hour. That’s not bad.

Nick Wenner:  31:06                    

Yeah. and I guess the only thing that I can think of is just with this idea of just kind of loving and caring for people. It has just been a really cool opportunity as we’ve been putting more of a focus on that throughout our company and real identity is really calling out kind of a lot of the good things that are happening on a day to day basis. It’s just, it’s so fun watching that ripple out across the country or, I mean, not the country, the company. Like we just started these, these things at our company called a Birch cart, which again is our core values where when one of us recognized that a coworker doing are exemplifying a core value, we get, we just fill out this little card, say who the person is and say what, what they did that we appreciated and how, which core value we think that exemplified and just give it to them.

Nick Wenner:  31:55                    

It’s just a small [inaudible] recognition of, Hey, we saw what you did and we appreciate it. There’s no money tied to it and there’s no monetary, but it’s just a physical reminder that we’re all here doing good every day. Because as you know, in business there’s a lot of problems that come our way. And when, when times get tough, it’s easy, it feels like a failure. But when you have these physical reminders, you take all these carbs and put them on a board in our break room so that when you go into the break room, you can see a wall filled with cards of ways that coworkers recognize each other for doing something great. And I think that’s the kind of stuff that serves as the glue that kind of holds us together. When times get tough as we have all these shared experience and we have some physical reminders of the fact that no, we’re going through a season right now and it is challenging and it does feel daunting but there is an end in sight and we’re going to get through it just like we always do.

Brad Wolff: 32:52                    

That’s, that’s huge. And it goes a long way when people realize you notice and it reinforces it because it doesn’t mean they wouldn’t do it anyway, but the fact that you noticed and it mattered. Yup. It makes a huge difference.

Nick Wenner: 33:06                    

And I think what’s even cooler with that is seeing, seeing too, just like, like production workers recognizing each other that like one production worker goes in, goes to the effort of filling out this card for another coworker. Like that’s the kind of stuff where you’re doing it for no other reason other than you care.

Brad Wolff:  33:25                    

And that absolutely. Cause it’s not like you getting anything out of it by doing that. And interesting by your leaders setting the example. Isn’t it amazing how other than everyone is a leader in reality, but people that aren’t even necessarily had a leader title start the following suit? Right. You don’t have to tell them, you don’t tell them to do it. Yup. They do it because they see it and it matters. So what is, what is the website of your company, Nick?

Nick Wenner:    33:54                    

Oh, it’s just P. A. L. L. E. T.

Brad Wolff:    33:59                    

All right. And is there any other, are there books or any other things you’d like to tell the audience about that would be helpful to them?

Nick Wenner:   34:07                    

I’m one of them, I guess one of them, the things that’s really helped our journey as our company has grown as is a traction EOS process. There’s a book out there called traction by Gino Wickman. We’ve, since we’ve read the book and, and since hired an implementer to kind of help us through consulting and just going through that process, it’s, it’s basically a really simple, easy operating system with a set of tools for any business that you can use to develop your business, hold people accountable and really just keep growing in a profitable way. So that’s been really nice for me too.

Brad Wolff:  34:44                    

Terrific. Thank you very much for sharing. Well, Nick, this has been an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate your taking the time out of your busy day to share things that have really valuable that other people can benefit from.

Nick Wenner:   34:58                    

Well, I am, I’m flattered to have the opportunity and hopefully there, there’s something that I said here that’ll resonate with some people and again, I know I got more to learn than I know. I just appreciate it.

Brad Wolff:  35:14                    

Well, here’s one person that every, a lot resonated with Nick. Thank you very much. You’re very welcome.